Farah Alibay, NASA Aerospace Engineer | Los Angeles
Monika Samtani in conversation with Farah Alibay, NASA Aerospace Engineer | July 2020
Monika Samtani
Hey everyone. This is The Fem Word. I'm Monika, Samtani. Every week we talk with bold women in creative spaces from all over the world. And every week, I'm literally on a high after having these conversations with women who are changing the narrative when it comes to gender and equality, and showing the world what women are really made of..and Farah Alibay is just that. She's an aerospace engineer with an amazing story. She's only 32 and she embraces her power while working at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab in the Mars InSight mission. I cannot wait for you to hear my conversation with Farah Alibay. I'm excited to talk with you Farah!
Farah Alibay at NASA
Farah Alibay
It's great to be here.
Monika
I want to start with your background. You are from Madagascar. Is that right?
Farah
I was born in Montreal, Canada, so French is my first language. But my parents were born in Madagascar. My family had been in Madagascar for a few generations, and they left in the seventies. My mom left when she was 15 and moved to Canada and had fled because of the war at the time. And at the time the immigration policies in the seventies were a lot more open door. Even still Canada is very open to immigration, because it's a huge landmass, but does not have very many people. So they immigrated there as kind of a land of opportunity and stayed there.
My parents happened to both be from the same religious community. So they met in Canada. My dad actually moved to France when he was 18 to study. His parents happened to also move to Canada, because that's really how immigration works, right? If you look at any family that immigrates to the U. S. or Canada, they don't just come to a country. My dad's parents moved to Montreal because there were some members of the community that lived there, and they had a good life for themselves. My parents met one day when my dad was visiting his parents at a community picnic. So I was born in Quebec. We moved to England when I was a teenager, and because of my dad's job, I did my university and masters there. Then came over to the U. S. to do my PhD. And that's when I ended up at JPL because throughout my PhD., I wanted to work in aerospace, and ended up interning at JPL for a couple of summers. And that opened the doors for me here.
Farah Alibay on a mission to Mars
Monika
The immigrant story is interesting, isn't it? I mean, it doesn't matter where you're from, whether your parents are from Madagascar or like mine from India. The stories are similar. I so relate to how and why they came here, how you grew up, and what you connect to as a person and an individual.
Farah
It's very similar. And actually, originally, I'm Indian. So I won't call myself African, you know, I call myself Indian because we're Gujarati.
Monika
I had no idea!
Farah
Yeah. We speak Gujarati at home. I mean, I don't speak it. I listen, I can understand it. My grandmother on my dad's side was born in Gujarat. But on my mom's side, there's another immigration story. With Gujarat when there was a famine 150 years ago, people left in boats and were dropped off on the coast of Africa. And then it turns out my family was just last to leave the boat and they ended up in Madagascar. But there's a huge Indian community there, the same as Uganda and Kenya. I think in Uganda and Kenya, those communities are still there and very much established. In Madagascar, because of the civil unrest, a lot of those Indian communities left, and they're a little bit smaller, but yeah, that's my story. So, we're actually Gujarati.
Monika
I couldn't tell from your name, maybe that's it.
Farah
Oh yeah. It's a Persian name. My family, my parents are Ismaili Muslims. So that's why we ended up with a Persian name, and I don't look too Indian. I guess when I tell people, they're like, 'Oh yeah, you are Indian.'
Monika
Well, now I'm like, oh, she's a sister. Not that you wouldn't be no matter where you're from, but, even more so, because I'm Punjabi born and brought up in the U. S. My parent's story, is that they came to the U.S. in 1966, landed in New York, and made their way to Michigan because my dad had gotten a scholarship for an internship at the University of Michigan Hospital. They had nothing in their pockets at the time, you know, these are the immigrant stories. But he promised my mom, they were newlyweds at the time, that they would stay for two years. But fast forward..I'm a full-grown adult, I have three kids, and we are still here.
Farah
Yeah, that tends to happen. I think for my family, it was definitely more of a permanent immigration, but still, it's always the same stories. My mom tells me stories of when they came and the first time she saw snow was insane because, you know, she grew up in Madagascar, there wasn't TV there. So the first time that it snowed in Quebec where you get a lot of snow, she freaked out a little bit the first time she saw snow fall from the sky. It's so strange to think maybe because that's not really an experience that someone would ever experience anymore because of the internet and TV. And that's such an example of the immigrant story. You're completely in a different environment and so out of your comfort zone.
But, I'm so grateful that my grandparents took that leap of faith, and they went to Canada because I was born there, and I was given so many opportunities from being born in a country with good healthcare and good education. And then with my parents moving to England, even then, that allowed me to learn english and go to University of Cambridge as a local and pay ridiculously low fees to go to one of the best universities in the world because I happened to be a resident in the UK at that time. I'm always very aware that the reason why I'm here is because of the sacrifices that my family made to leave their country, to leave everything behind and provide a safe and healthy place for their future ancestors to grow up in. So, it's definitely something that I think unites us as immigrants.
Farah in front of Atlas V
Monika
Oh, 100%. And look at you now. I mean, talk about parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, whoever it was at the beginning of your story, and now today, fast forward to becoming an aerospace engineer. You're working at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab in the Mars InSight mission. Part of your accomplishments and who you are today as a woman is your story.
Farah
I mean, it's pretty awesome. I remember when I was a kid seeing movies of these white men that worked at NASA, right? I saw Apollo 13 and it fascinated me, and I thought it was incredible work. But especially back then, the stories of those hidden figures, for example, that we now are learning about, those were not stories that we were telling. Those are not stories that the media or Hollywood were telling. They were telling us the stories of these American heroes who had landed people on the moon. And even back then, I was so fascinated by it and just really wanted to be an astronaut and an engineer. But I have to admit that I never really imagined I would be here because it's hard to even imagine that you belong. It's honestly, it's a strange thing to say, but it's hard to have a dream about something where you can't even picture yourself in an environment.
And to me, it was people like a French Canadian astronaut called Julie Payette who, when I was young, was an engineer and went to space and she's now really high up in the Canadian government.
But she allowed me to dream, that's really what it is. And that speaks to the importance of representation, right. People always say, 'well, you know, if you want to go work at NASA, just go to school, do well, and then you'll get a job. We don't have discrimination, we'll hire you, whoever you are.' And yeah, that's true. But there's another aspect of the story. Often people don't even believe that there are doors that they can knock on if they don't see people like themselves behind those doors. And so, often, I'm like, 'am I really here?' And now I've worked on Mars InSight and Mars, 2020 on the Perseverance rover. And who else gets to say in their career that this is now going to be my second Mars launch in my six year career at JPL, my third Mars spacecraft. And so I get to say at 32 that I'm supporting my second launch, I'm going to have my second landing on Mars. And I do a lot of mentorship and so I was actually just in a meeting with some summer interns before this. And they asked me, "what's the highlight of your career so far?" And honestly for me, landing Insight on Mars and getting to say, I think seeing that first picture on Mars and being like, 'Holy crap! I went.. like.. What? I touched this! Now it's on Mars!'
Monika
It’s like..wow, I did that!
Farah
And, especially that first one, I told them it was really special for me because landing something on another planet, it was a lifelong dream. And I'm like, Oh my God, I achieved that at age 30. And then I was like, what am I going to do next? There's still plenty to do.
Monika
Conquer the universe, I think.
Farah
Yeah.
Monika
You are now that role model who makes people feel that because of you, 'I can'. Here you are setting that example and possibly creating access to things that maybe women never imagined before.
Farah at NASA social
Farah
That's something that I find really important as part of my job. I often talk to people about the fact that for me diversity within STEM and helping improve that is one of my career goals. I've seen the importance of having a mentor and having representation and having a figurehead to look up to. For me, now it's become something that I really want to give back to the next generation through my career. Even with this stay at home order, I've been doing talks with students, pretty much every week. And they get to see me on camera. It's not the same as seeing me in person, but, they see a brown woman with a funny accent, red hair, who happens to work at NASA, and who's also a rock climber and does normal things outside of work. Even if there's just one or two people that remember these, and remember this person at NASA, that still, to me, I can influence someone's life. I can make a difference in their career path, whether they end up at JPL or not, whether they end up at NASA. But if they follow that dream and feel empowered to go after what they want by hearing my story, that kind of story of perseverance, to show people that you can follow your dreams and succeed, that can be quite influential for someone who might think that they don't belong.
Monika
I think that not only are you a role model for young women because of your position, but also you are who you are. You're embracing your look, you're embracing your vibe. And you're like, I'm damn smart, and I can look and feel and do whatever I want while I conquer Mars. And maybe the universe in the future. Has there been pushback about that at all? In terms of, you know, for people who can't see you right now, you're a beautiful, smart, vibrant brown woman, NASA engineer with red hair. It's not the stereotypical look. Has there been pushback at all?
Farah celebrates an Emmy Award at NASA
Farah
Not really. I've always had colored hair since I was 16. But, when I went to graduate school, I stopped dying my hair because I was worried that having colored hair, would perhaps... you know, I was like, I'm different enough, not going to add one more thing. But within JPL I think generally no one really cares. People mostly comment on how much they like my hair or my look or whatever. And so it's generally been really positive. There's always the odd person that says, 'Oh, you're trying to draw too much attention on yourself' or, 'Oh, you can't be smart if you have colored hair, you only worry about your looks'. You know, eventually, you sort of learn that wait up, I have a PhD. from MIT. I'm okay, I'll be fine.
Monika
I'm a badass.
Farah
Yeah, but there are days where obviously like everyone else, I still suffer from imposter syndrome and there are days where I don't feel like I belong. But I think that's something that I've learned that's more within myself that if I'm confident in what I know and what I'm capable of, then it's not on anyone else to judge me for the way I look. And to be honest, one of the things that I often talk about is personally, I learned once I started at JPL, I stood out already. So adding the hair color wasn't going to be a big deal. But one of the things that I learned very rapidly is when I enter a room if I'm intelligent and I make good comments, or I give a good presentation, people are gonna remember me because guess what? There aren't two brown women with red hair at JPL. Right? And so, they don't have to remember my name, but they will remember me physically. Whereas if you happen to be a white man with brown hair, the odds are that there are two people that probably look like you. And so I use this as a strength of, okay, I am different, but you know what? So remember me. You'll see me from across the lab when I'm walking over. And so I've turned what can be perceived as a weakness or what can be perceived as a difference into one of my primary strengths.
Monika
You do want to tackle gender equality in your field, and more specifically increase the visibility of women. So when you say that you're going to take on gender equality at NASA, that's pretty huge. I love your message, and this is partly the reason why we wanted to speak to you is because we want more people to hear your message and your voice, and your career path. But it's a huge undertaking, and it's not something that's going to happen overnight. Tell us the steps that you feel you're already taking, and what needs to be done to make that a reality.
Farah
Absolutely. So first off, the good thing that I've learned is that I'm not alone in that journey. I've discovered that there are a number of allies within JPL, within NASA who see the importance of diversity and inclusion in the workspace and see how valuable it is to have a diverse team. Because it's been shown, right, that the more diverse experiences you have, you can look at the same problem, a different way, and that makes for more creativity and a better team as a whole. So for me, the path that I've chosen is that of representation. I really enjoy educating. I enjoy talking about my work. And so I'm turning that strength into a positive influence on my community. So I spend a lot of time doing outreach within my broader community. And honestly, this new environment we're in has been kind of a blessing because a lot of schools have gone to online learning. And so I've given talks in my home province of Quebec, back in England, and most schools are set up for this kind of environment, so that means I can reach out to them. And then within JPL, we have an inclusion advisory committee which has members of the executive council along with seven JPL-ers that were selected to sit on the board. So I'm one of those seven. And so I get to influence at the lab level, make recommendations to the lab director on how to improve DNI within JPL. So, I've served on that board for a year and a half and I have about a year of my mandate to go. And that's been a really interesting part also of my journey because I've gotten to understand, okay, what are the institutional barriers? How can we improve this? And we've started to already improve that process long term. I think it's a mix of the areas that I would want to continue to look at as I progress in my own career. I'll become that group supervisor, I'll become that project manager. And one of the things I've learned from past experiences is that project leads are really the ones that set the culture for a project. So my dream as an engineer is to be a project manager, a project lead on a big mission that does extraordinary scientific discoveries. That would be my dream, but the reason why I dream of that is not only because of the cool science and the awesome engineering we're going to do, but also because in that role I can help break down those barriers. I can set a culture of inclusion within a team, and I've seen that. Leaders are really what make or break a project and make or break essentially an institution because these projects are such a big part of the bigger institution. So, I'm learning right now, the building blocks of how to create an inclusive team, how to encourage people, and open those doors. So that as I progress in my leadership journey, I can take those skills and have a broader impact on my community.
Monika
Give day a day in the life of Farah, explaining JPL. What is a jet propulsion lab? When you come into work, what is it that you do? I know that you consider yourself an explorer...
Farah
A day in the life of Farah. So let's see. So right now it's a little bit different. But actually, my job changes pretty much from day to day. Right now, I work on the Perseverance rover, and up until now, we were building the rover, testing the rover. In the fall, I was often at work testing on the actual spacecraft. Over the summer, a lot of my days right now, I'm preparing test procedures because I'll be spending a lot of my days outside in the Mars Yard, which is essentially just an outdoor area that-...
Monika
Is that your playground?
Farah
Yeah, it's basically a playground. I get to play like, you know, how kids play in the sand outside. That's kind of a grownup version of that. So I'll be doing a lot of mobility testing with our twin of that rover here. And then once we land on Mars, I'll be part of the operations team. So I'll be part of the team that will be operating the rover and the helicopter that we're bringing with us day to day on Mars. And that's something that I did on Insight too. And I talk about a different day to day. Every day when we land on Mars, we'll be in a different place. And I'll be on that journey with the rover every single day, at least for the first three months when we land on Mars. So, it's definitely very varied, not gonna lie. There are days that I've sat here coding, or making PowerPoint presentations like everyone else. We love our PowerPoints and our Excels, but you know, PowerPoints about rover's landing on Mars is not so bad.
Monika
For the young women listening or watching. Describe a moment that you felt powerful as a woman. And what does it mean to be powerful?
“…it is quite a moment to say yes, as a human I have contributed to the field of knowledge of humanity. Of the overall knowledge that humans as a species, I have added a droplet of myself that is forever going to be there.”
Farah
Oh, wow. There's been a few, I think, some were more subtle than others. One of the days that I felt the most powerful is probably the day that I defended my thesis out of my PhD. It's a day where you get to stand up in front of the scientific community and talk about how you've contributed to the field. And you've contributed something that no one else has when you do a PhD. You are writing the textbooks, you are writing the papers, the seminal papers in your field. And so it is quite a moment to say yes, as a human I have contributed to the field of knowledge of humanity. Of the overall knowledge that humans as a species, I have added a droplet of myself that is forever going to be there. And oddly enough, when you work on Mars missions, that's kind of the same, right? That we landed on Mars in 2018, and I'm sure I will feel the same about the Perseverance rover, was extraordinary as a team. But for me, some of my accomplishments were on those days that we were doing operations and I helped fix a problem. I helped debug something which meant that we were able to take that extra picture, do that extra little bit of science every single time it's those little actions that when you look at them in the aggregate - you know, as a woman, as a team member, within that team, I was able to contribute to history. So sometimes stepping back and looking at those accomplishments, it's hard to pinpoint an exact thing, but it's those aggregate accomplishments are all what are making the textbooks now, right? Like the work that I've done will become what people study later. And that's, that's a pretty incredible thing to get to say that I've contributed to humanity's understanding of the planets and of themselves.
Monika
I have chills. And you are such an inspiration to so many. I know that the underlying theme and message of everything you've just said to us is never give up and believe in yourself.
Farah
Absolutely. Yeah. For me, I think the journey was very meandering. There were so many times where I took big risks, but I think one of the things I always told myself is that I'm not going to get anywhere if I don't try. And so I might as well try, and I'm always going to feel guilty if I don't try my best. And so I've always told myself, try my best. It's okay to fail. And you fail multiple times along the way, but I always remind people that it only takes one yes. So if you try your hardest and you're putting everything in one day that yes will come. And that one yes, right, that one person saying yes, come to JPL for an internship. Yes. Here's your job offer. Yes. Please join this project. Those few yeses are the reason why I'm here today. But I can tell you, there was a hell of a lot of no's along the way. And a lot of times where I thought, why the hell did I move to America to do this? I should have just stayed home in my comfort zone near my parents. But it was worth it, right. Because I get to follow my dream and I'm never going to ask myself, what if? That's not something that I'll ever have to consider because there are no what-ifs. I've done what I want to do.
Monika
Thank you so much for sharing your story Farah. It is just phenomenal. I can't wait to hear and see what you do next in your life.
Farah
Thank you so much for having me.